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Here is a really interesting demo by Nigel Pegg covering the next version of Adobe Connect which features a totally overhauled UI built in Flex. Nigel is also showing the upcoming CoCoMo service which allows developers to leverage the Connect backend using a set of Flex component that will enable developers to built custom collaboration applications - in many ways similar to FMS applications.
I won't be starting a rant here and I've mentioned previously that CoCoMo is both exciting and scary at the same time. Combined with the features outlined for Pacifica it seems that pretty much everything that FMS provides right now in terms of capabilities (apart from the video delivery features) will also be provided by either CoCoMo or Pacifica. I have yet to make up my mind whether this a good thing or not.
I've just returned from MAX and I have some more info on Pacifica and CoCoMo shortly, alongside details of Adobe's upcoming DRM solution for Flash video. Stay tuned.

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I thought the UI for the next version of Connect was convered by the NDA and Fang mentioned not to put any shots up. Should you take the presentation down?
# Posted By George | 10/18/07 1:25 PM
I actually got this link from a public source and I'm not aware of any restrictions. I'll dig deeper and will remove this should it turn out to be confidential in any way.
# Posted By Stefan | 10/18/07 3:19 PM
this does not seem to be covered by an NDA so it should be good to go as is. Thanks for waving a flag though.
# Posted By Stefan | 10/18/07 3:22 PM
What, no link back to where you got the preso? ;) (Yeah, I'm shameless)

Actually, if you fast forward to near the end of the recording (yes, another feature built on FMS, but I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy to implement), I go on a little exploration of services Cocomo provides that FMS alone couldn't give you. So, I'm going to go on record as saying that the Cocomo services are related to FMS, but not identical to it. We're definitely not doing raw on-demand streaming, but we're also offering a lot more in other respects. I'll be posting more on this further.
# Posted By Nigel Pegg | 10/18/07 4:00 PM
Note: long reply ahead.

thanks Nigel (and I type this while I listen to your preso at the same time), I actually got this URL from the Flash Media List and also cross checked it in the Adobe Experts Portal where it wasn't marked as NDA so I assume it's good to go?
I really think that CoCoMo looks awesome (hoping to see a beta invite soon in my inbox ;-) and that you guys have done a great job. I can also see how a pure clientside development SDK will work well and how it leaves opportunities left for FMS yet at the same time it's clear that it will eat deeply into FMS's featureset and it will direct people away from the platform and onto CoCoMo. And that's fine I guess (and Adobe never made a good job of selling FMS's strengths outside video delivery) but it remains to be seen if more opportunities for developers are created by this than will be taken away. And that one is tricky to judge even further down the line.
Lastly I really ought to get my slides and pics from MAX online as they clearly show that Pacifica and CoCoMo will between themselves cover almost all of what FMS can do minus the pure video delivery features. We all get a clear sense of where Adobe is heading but I haven't yet decided if it's a good one or not. If FMS wasn't around I'd probably be the happiest Flash developer around but as things stand I see Adobe pushing deep into developer territory, not only with CoCoMo but also on the AMP front (and I can name a few more examples like that). But that one's for another blog post ;-)

No hard feelings here by any means, but Adobe could be walking a fine line between enabling developers and competing with them. On the flipside I understand that if you want us to leverage all the great work that's gone into Connect this is probably a pretty obvious way to do that.
# Posted By Stefan | 10/18/07 4:32 PM
The presentation is public so I wouldn't worry about NDAs. You'll find a link to it on the Collaborative Methods Blog:

http://blogs.adobe.com/collabmethods/2007/10/cocom...

I haven't seen any evidence that Cocomo or Pacifica will actually take away from FMS on a technical level. They may compete with FMS for developer's attention which is a different thing. And they may stop Adobe from making certain types of investments in new collaborative features in FMS. But that process is underway already. For example LiveCycle Data Services has RMTP delivered data services that FMS does not have.

Also Cocomo is part of Adobe's approach to building collaborative applications. We'll have to see how all Adobe's products evolve and the degree of cross fertilization between them. I don't think we can ask Nigel for the answers to all those sorts of questions.

Cheers,
-Brian
# Posted By Brian Lesser | 10/18/07 5:02 PM
Thanks Brian,
we'll certainly know more further down the line but I have equal dilemmas as a poster on Nigel's blog. We're trying to sell a Flex whiteboard component for FMS - maybe not something that we should invest much more time into if we can soon drag and drop one in 5 minutes. The only advantage I see for FMS in our case is the backend integration between FMS and 3rd party systems that most clients require.
As for LCDS - I don't see that as any great competition to FMS, especially not with the price tag that multi CPU versions currently have.
# Posted By Stefan | 10/18/07 5:10 PM
I'll actually take Brian's statement one step further and say that I believe we can *elevate* FMS' feature set through an investment in hosted services. I'm sure you'll appreciate that I have to be careful in what I say, but you can be sure a couple of things :

My team does more development work using FMS than any other within adbe. And *No one on Earth* spends more time bothering Pritham, Srini, and the rest of the FMS gang for features and improvements. The bonus here is that because Adobe is investing in these sorts of higher level projects, the features do make their way into FMS (and sometimes, the player).

I know from an outside dev perspective it would be better to cut out the middle man and just add those features regardless. How decisions like that get made, I am in *no* position to comment. But it's certainly not a case of resources shifting from FMS to Cocomo - it's going to be a case of them shifting to both. There's some... kinda incredible stuff going on right now, that I'm lucky enough to be playing with today (no meetings for a change!). The future looks bright for everyone, IMO.
# Posted By Nigel Pegg | 10/18/07 5:16 PM
cool, that's the kind of stuff we like to hear :-)
# Posted By Stefan | 10/18/07 8:12 PM
I just now attended Nigel's excellent presentation on CoCoMo (thanks for the link Stefan). Thank you Nigel for spending the time to help us understand CoCoMo, especially after MAX.

As a Flash/FMS developer who delivers solutions to a large corporation behind the firewall, I really like the idea of giving us (developers) the components that Connect has in our own development.

I guess where it falls down for me is the "Hosted Services" model that we need buy into to use CoCoMo. We purchase FMS licences, CS3, hardware, etc to develop our own infrastructure and RTC applications. We do that for very good reasons, (as opposed to buying Breeze or Connect) so that we can develop apps that solve our specific problems.

In other words, I'm not very interested in the hosted services model and paying Adobe x-dollars for when 50 users are logged into our app, and y-dollars with 3000 users are logged into our app, for the priveledge of using those most excellent components. At least, that's how I understood Nigel; please correct me if I misunderstood.

On the other hand, I would be happy to recommend and purchase the infrastructure from Adobe and host/develop it myself (as we have with FMS) outside a hosted services model.

I was greatly impressed with Nigel's last posted remark regarding resources shifting both to FMS and CoCoMo. I hope this is the way that Adobe goes.

It sounds like Adobe is determined that CoCoMo will be on the hosted services model for the foreseable future (just guessing). While clearly an impressive technology, I just don't see recommending it.

If FMS and CoCoMo 'fork', then I can hope that some features find their way into FMS as Nigel mentions.

Thanks very much for your excellent work.
.Burt
# Posted By Burt | 10/23/07 9:47 PM
I agree with you Burt, it's great to see that resources are being put into the RTC space and the CoCoMo framework looks excellent. But I also feel that FMS is being left out in the cold in some respect unless we will see a similarly up to date component set or framework being put into FMS. The CoCoMo components are what many FMS developers have been waiting for (we have not had an FMS component update since FCS 1.0 5 years ago) but it seems that they cannot be leveraged on our own servers.
If you look at CoCoMo on its own then it all looks pretty sweet, but run it alongside FMS and the picture changes for me. I can;t help but feel that FMS deserves a similar update but that's probably wishful thinking as Adobe is clearly (and maybe I should say once again) keeping the best bits to themselves.
# Posted By Stefan | 10/24/07 8:24 AM
Hi Stefan. Yes, you really put your finger on a couple of issues that I think Adobe, and perhaps Nigel, may find interesting from our (developers) perspective.

You have CoCoMo, with great pre-built components that simplify the event model, and a hosted services (pay as you go) model, used to simplify what can be complex multi-tier development for RTC type applications. Ok.

Then you have FMS, with very basic components, certainly more complex programming involved, but you are given total flexibility in developing RTC apps, with the exception of some critical components that Adobe 'left out'. (i won't go over the 'screen-sharing' issue; i.e. competing against your own developers).

I believe that Adobe made a mistake @ MAX. They should have released CoCoMo and 'CoCoFMS3' concurrently. They are thinking of FMS (and thier developers) as an after-thought and not as the 2 distinct 'use-cases' that they really are.

IMHO Adobe does not think strategically on how to work with their developer community, and I think we are seeing that with CoCoMo. Their (Adobe) interests lie in a developer community that is behind them 100%. Ask Microsoft (.Net) and Sun (Java). And I'm not sure they are there yet.

Thanks again,
.Burt
# Posted By Burt | 10/24/07 6:02 PM