FlashComGuru.com - The Original Flash Video, Flash Media Server and Flash Platform Resource: Apple Is Acting Like A <strike>Dick</strike> Spoiled Kid

Apple Is Acting Like A ~~Dick~~ Spoiled Kid

Posted At : April 9, 2010 9:07 AM | Posted By : Stefan Richter | Related Categories: Off topic

Excuse my French, but that's the most fitting way of describing Apple's latest move of deciding to 'ban' any cross-compiled applications from its App Store. If enforced this could mean an effective block of Adobe Flash CS5's flagship feature which is the ability to export native iPhone apps written in ActionScript.

I'm annoyed by this for many reasons. The primary one is that this directly sends a message to me personally as a developer who has already launched a Flash based iPhone app onto the App Store. That message reads: "We do not value your work. Whilst technically there's nothing wrong with your application and you have complied with all the rules we have given you already we've decided to move the goal posts now and deemed that your work adds no value to our platform."

Well guess what Apple, your platform does not add any value to me either. Not that I had any plans to develop more iPhone apps anyway anytime soon, but the fact that the effort I put in already is effectively discredited does cheese me off. Who does Apple think they are? Do they really believe that this is going to drive adoption of their own tools? I predict the opposite will be the case.

I don't think even Apple is that stupid. Instead this latest development is nothing more than a cheap shot at Adobe, but with a lot of collateral damage. They seem to forget that most developers are skilled in several languages, and many Flash devs also code in Objective-C. Will they reconsider their investment in Apple now? I certainly will.
Having already sold my Apple TV and replaced it with an Acer Revo, replaced my MacBook Pro with a netbook I'll most certainly not be renewing my Apple Developer agreement, nor agree to their updated terms. MobileMe can also go f**k itself. And my decision about upgrading to the next iPhone has just been made for me too: the HTC Desire is what I desire.

Granted, when it comes to desktop hardware I'll have to consider my options as I do like OSX and my iMac. But the bottom line is that I'll vote with my wallet and feel mighty good about it.

PS: I have updated the description of my game on the App Store - will let you know if/when they publish it. But I feel they may not :-)

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WTFis happening man, 3 days before shipping CS5??? Stabbing Adobe in the back?? Didn't they work together on this sh@#$t?

Maybe I should chil out right now... and give it some time. But I'm pretty frustrated right now!

# Posted By Maikel Sibbald | 4/9/10 9:54 AM

Imagine Microsoft (or any other company for that matter) made such a move with any of their OSes etc, the EU trade commission would be stomping all over them handing out fines and dictating rules. Yet Apple, who have no published rules for the AppStore and can pick and choose which apps they allow or ban willynilly (by inference) seem to comply with the rules of fair trading - talk about double standards!

I'm with you, I'm ditching my iPhone3GS asap and heading to Android. As far as I'm concerned, Apple can go f**k itself.

# Posted By FatCandy | 4/9/10 10:03 AM

I'm sure Apple's reply to such post(s) would be "If you're too lazy to comply with our new rules, we don't need you. It only confirms that not only Adobe itself is lazy, but its the case with their developer community as well.". I'm sure Steve would say something along the lines and close the argument in whole.

Propaganda is what goes along with any bullying corporation, be it Microsoft or Apple. Since Apple's Flash blockade didn't have anything to do with technology, it is what was to be expected.

Even so there's the aspect Apple has to consider: consumer policies. This is a blueprint of an antitrust case and European Commission will sooner or later nail Apple badly over these policies. They don't exactly hold a respectable position at EC over their past issues with iTunes Music Store anyway and we've seen EC cashing in $2M a day from Microsoft throughout previous years, so it's a pretty solid case here.

My advice is the same as Stefan's: go Android!

# Posted By Ain Tohvri | 4/9/10 10:08 AM

Yeah,

Im' reconsidering the fact of having a Mac, now, i would like to boycott Apple's choices.

# Posted By dafunker | 4/9/10 10:13 AM

I can well imagine a load of responses to this latest stunt will rant on about stability, preventing future incompatibilities with OS updates blah blah blah. This is not the point on this clause Apple have written, the point is unadulterated HUMAN GREED!

# Posted By Simon Bailey | 4/9/10 10:21 AM

Does this also affect MonoTouch as well (where you code in C# and it compiles direct to native code rather than CLR bytecode of .NET)? That is presumably seen as cross-compiling by Apple (though in reality, it is just normal compiling).

It seems to me that Apps store will end up with high-end apps from big companies because they can afford development, and cheap trashy apps that anyone can knock-up, and the majority of developers who have good ideas but perhaps are more proficient in other languages such as ActionScript/C# will steer clear.

Lee

# Posted By Lee Atkinson | 4/9/10 10:36 AM

It's hard to beleave that Apple is shooting their feet. All the Adobe community should get against Apple and claim for some changes on the AppStore.

Almost 2 days for the CS5 release and we read this news. What a shame :/

# Posted By Ramon Fritsch | 4/9/10 10:38 AM

Adobe should release the Flash 10.1 plugin for the iPhone and iPad (we know they have developed one) and let the jailbreakers install it, and when i say release i mean let slip into the public domain ;) and when apple see the jailbreak numbers rise into there millions, just to get flash apps and flash videos onto there devices they will have to reconsider there position, surly?

# Posted By Ben | 4/9/10 11:09 AM

Couldn't Adobe sue Apple for using their market domination to harm them ? netscape tried to do it to microsoft.

# Posted By Nikhil Bafna | 4/9/10 11:25 AM

I think Ben makes a very good point here. After your original warranty is over it makes no difference owning a regular or jailbroken iPhone. People who want to have Flash on their iPhones should have a way to get native Flash apps installed on their devices and show the world that they can actually work on an iPhone thus encouraging others to do so.

I decide what apps I want to have on my phone not the manufacturer.

# Posted By KP | 4/9/10 11:41 AM

That means you're not going to release your master piece "Just Letters" for iPad.... that's a shame....

Difficult to understand why Flash "developers" react so emotionally.

# Posted By Andrew Morton | 4/9/10 11:50 AM

Probably because you are not a developer

# Posted By Fabio | 4/9/10 12:11 PM

Hmmm... no reason to update to Flash CS5 anymore! Thanks a lot Apple!

# Posted By Jan de Bouvrie | 4/9/10 12:20 PM

@Ben that's a great idea and there's absolutely nothing illegal about it. I think Adobe were just holding out to see how far Apple would go but now IT'S ON.

As for boycotting Apple in general... I dunno guys, I would for sure if I saw a better option than my macBook but really, for my needs, it's pretty spot-on.

# Posted By Franz | 4/9/10 12:40 PM

How about Adobe not releasing future versions of Flash and Photoshop for Mac?

# Posted By Herre | 4/9/10 12:43 PM

How about Adobe not releasing future versions of Flash and Photoshop for Mac?

# Posted By Herre | 4/9/10 12:43 PM

Yes! throw away 50% of there revenues

# Posted By Jan de Bont | 4/9/10 12:59 PM

@Herre problem with that is that it would hit adobe where it hurts too $$

@Franz i think your right they must be holding out to see if a peaceful agreement can be arranged but it quite clear by jobs'n co that there is not going to be ...so bring it on adobe Just Do It √

# Posted By ben | 4/9/10 1:00 PM

Well it seems that Apple made its decision regarding Adobe's Flash and any related products... it's WAR...!

# Posted By Ronny Karam | 4/9/10 1:41 PM

The software and the hardware that i love and the philosophy that i hate.. It's APPLE

# Posted By Ali Nakipoglu | 4/9/10 2:22 PM

Google, Microsoft and Nokia could not have come up with a better plan to alienate creatives from Apple. It is almost unbelieivable. It really does seem like an April Fool's joke. Really, really stupid.

# Posted By Mark Fuqua | 4/9/10 2:38 PM

Apple's software is closed source. Adobe's software is closed source. It means they decided to keep control over it no matter what. This forces developers to reverse-engineer and try to work around undocumented 'features' instead of fixing them in the first place. With the IPad and the Flash Player you have 2 of those black boxes and trying to make them work together is one big nasty hack, from both a Flash Player and IPhone OS point of view. You'll encounter the legal and technical issues that Apple is talking about, and the desperate attempts of Adobe to make stuff run on that platform. In my opinion this is all such a waste of time and money, but apparently there's a need so there we go.

So let's not forgot that it was *you* that decided to buy an iPhone and develop a Flash application for it. It was *you* that decided not to develop in Objective-C. It was *you* to choose to use the Flash Player.

And now *you* call them a dick because you can't get what you want? I think it's time we all consider what this closed source mentality means and how we continue to shoot ourselves in the foot.

# Posted By Thijs | 4/9/10 3:02 PM

All software applications I use daily, like Adobe CS tools work perfectly on Windows. After starting my PC I start A few Adobe apps, MS Outlook and Google Chrome. The rest of the day I happily switch between them and am not aware that thes apps run on Windows. So why pay for an expensive Mac? What does it bring extra that justifies the extra money and coping with the Apple arrogance?

# Posted By Benny | 4/9/10 3:04 PM

I have a feeling some time ago Apple wished to purchase Adobe and they turned him down and Steve holds a grudge.

I also believe Steve is jealous. He wants ObjectiveC, Cocoa, etc... to have he marketshare/penetration Flash. Its simple. Everything everyone has been creating in Flash for years Steve wished people would do with his platform. Flash is a direct competitor with penetration. If Flash was allowed on the iPhone, Steves language would never take off. He has to be sure that gets more developers on board and more penetration with his platform before Flash ever makes it on his products.

Yes, Flash does eat resources, but even if Adobe and AS developers improve code/performance to better than MAC standards, we would still be in the Mexican standoff.

# Posted By jason | 4/9/10 3:09 PM

The designer community is using Mac's for the most part. In the past this was the best and most logical option. But today Windwos 7 is a fine alternative IMHO. Maybe Adobe should start a program that hands out free/cheap CS Windows licenses to schools and teachers (and maybe even startup agencies) which would be legible for upgrading after you leave that school as a student. Of course those special license would have clause stating that it only applies software not running on Apple hardware :P

# Posted By Benny | 4/9/10 3:17 PM

@Thijs You are missing the point completely. This is not about proprietary versus open source, even though you would clearly like it to be for some reason.

Sure I bought an iPhone, sure I bought a copy of Flash. Does that mean I can't disagree with anything that Apple or Adobe does at any point in the future?

# Posted By Stefan Richter | 4/9/10 3:31 PM

Enough is enough!
As a Flash and .NET developer, I'm not going to sit back and let Apple try to put me out of business. This is unacceptable and Adobe needs to step up... NOW!

In the meantime, I propose we band together and do the following:
1. Boycott iPhone.
2. Educate our clients about Apple's intentions.
3. Spread the word to other developers.

In addition, we should create a standard message, even better a killer icon, to embed into all of our SWFObject "AlternateContent" placeholders. Imagine if instead of seeing the lego block, iPhone users saw a rotten apple icon (hey, that's not bad!). I plan on putting more thought into this and running it by the community so let me know if you have any ideas...

We are similar minded people and none of us should sit back and take this in the keister... Especially after all the money we've wasted on Apple.

If Adobe won't defend us we need to!!! Ask not what your country can... sorry, got a little carried away.

More on this later

# Posted By Joe Hakooz | 4/9/10 3:31 PM

@Joe I like the idea with the placeholder. However I have absolutely no concern that Apple will have any impact on my business at all.

As they say: Satisfied Customers Tell Three Friends, Angry Customers Tell 3000

# Posted By Stefan Richter | 4/9/10 3:36 PM

Stefan, I guess that's what I'm trying to say. By buying their software or hardware and clicking that 'Accept' button in iTunes you basically say 'I accept [company name here] to act like a dick and screw me over if they want to'. If there would be open source alternatives you would not have to make this decision and choose your own destiny. As soon as you understand that you'll be less disappointed by events like the one we saw today.

# Posted By Thijs | 4/9/10 3:43 PM

You Flash developers that have been helping Apple destroy Flash by adding to their apps store are traitors and are right now getting what you deserve.

C'mon, is this a surprise to you? Wake up. This is war. If you believe Flash is good for the Internet - then you shouldn't be supporting Apple. Have some balls for crying out loud!

I'm a Flasher to the core and this is great news as far as I'm concerned.

# Posted By Joel Fiser | 4/9/10 3:44 PM

@Thijs I hear you. Good then that my next phone will be an Android. Still I do not see this as open versus proprietary.

@Joel Fiser A traitor? Rrrright.

# Posted By Stefan Richter | 4/9/10 3:47 PM

@Stefan - You give that sarcastic rrright - but how am I wrong?

You knew Jobs was trying to kill Flash yet, if you developed for the iPhone, you were helping.

Please explain more than just being sarcastic.

# Posted By Joel Fiser | 4/9/10 3:50 PM

How was I helping to kill Flash? By building an iPhone app using Adobe tools? I do not follow your logic.

# Posted By Stefan Richter | 4/9/10 4:03 PM

To understand my logic just look at the events from yesterday (the subject of this post). You and Adobe should have seen this coming a mile away.

1. It's been well known for some time that Jobs wants to kill Flash.
2. The iPhone thrives due in large part due to the Apps made for the iPhone.
3. Every cool app you add to the app store gives the iPhone another reason to exist.

I was always confused and just a little pissed when Adobe was trumpeting how they could put their apps on the iPhone / iPad. It's a stupid strategy. This announcement bears that out.

I know most developers are kind of timid and laid back and not spoiling for a fight. But, if you believe Flash is hugely important to the Internet (and maybe you don't) then you'd better know you're at war.

# Posted By Joel Fiser | 4/9/10 4:15 PM

@Joel

the issue seems to be a bit deeper than that. Adobe has kept shouting for months that 19 out of 20 top device producers are with them (except Apple), more than 50 tables have been announced that will support AIR and Flash (unlike Pad) just this year, 60 companies have joined the Open Screen Project, 75% of video on the internet is Flash, the plugin has a penetration of 98%, yet being excluded by a single vendor trigger them to file "risk factors" with the SEC?

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601204&am...

Is Flash ecosystem so fragile that a single vendor, not lining up with the rest of the world, can break it?

Something doesn't smell right ad Adobe.....

# Posted By Andrew Morton | 4/9/10 4:38 PM

Well, Apple undeniably has the momentum and a large share currently.

But with Google as our new best buddy, we can kick Apple's ass by just being better and more widespread (if 10.1 EVER comes out). Not by helping support their absurdly closed ecosystem.

# Posted By Joel Fiser | 4/9/10 4:52 PM

Guess, we should just publish to the Android store and kick Apple's ass that way.

# Posted By Nikhil Bafna | 4/9/10 5:29 PM

Okay Okay - I'm going to stand up and tell all of you that are whinging and sulking that Apple has pulled the plug on the toys that Adobe was giving you. Why? Heres my take on it....

1. Adobe have created a tool in CS5 which effectively Cheats app development.

2. The Flash Exporter does not work properly as it doesnt work with XCode and the optimisation tools.

3. It doesnt work with the iPhone SDK! ( Wow what a shocker when your flash apps all break later because Apple update the SDK with new features and your app didnt work with the rules.. boohoo!)

4. Flash should always be 'an enhancement' its not a native element, it is still an 'extra' too 100% of all web users. The iPad and iPhone and iPod touch use only native web tools. Is Flash part of the HTML bundle? No...

Seriously, stop bloody whinging that you've got to learn something else to be able join in the fun of creating apps and getting money from them!

Lazy fools.

# Posted By Roger Balfod | 4/10/10 11:53 AM

Agree with you completely. Adobe Inc. Should counter this by devoting engineers to a project to simplify jail breaking the iPad / iPhone with an a uto install of flash and air onto the device at the same time. If easy enough then everyone would adopt and would force apple to reconsider their asinine policies. Gh

# Posted By Gregh | 4/10/10 6:13 PM

Too right Stef! I have been using Apple products for years - even when they where unfashionable. I think they reached their peak with the 3GS. The market has caught up and will now overtake. I will be considering buying an Android phone next. I'll also deffo be buying the Android tablet and not the iPad.

I can't be arsed with a locked down system. This is not what the Internet is all about. Carry on like this and the forces like the TV and print Murdoch empire will move into the Internet and start to control the level of content you can watch - like a SKY TV package scenario.

When buying new tech - think about the future - are you contributing to a locked down net environment? Apple have a nerve to shut out Google and Adobe. It makes M$oft look almost angelic.

I agree - F*ck Apple and your shiny public image, you are f*cking with the workers at the coalface!

Stevo

# Posted By Powderdust | 4/12/10 10:43 AM

SIMPLES - ADOBE Should stop Photoshop and all CS products running on all Apple machines as of tomorrow if they can, see how quick Apple change their greedy police state draconian stance then. Scr3w you Apple and your over priced sh1t you scumbags.

# Posted By no name | 4/12/10 3:42 PM

Although that would be effective, I think Adobe knows that would hurt the developers too.

Notice how in all of this, Adobe is clearly the adult, while Apple is the name calling bomb thrower. I personally wish Adobe would kick a little more ass here, but in the end their professionalism should pay off... I hope!

Better yet, a stronger Google/Adobe alliance would be ideal, don't you think?

# Posted By Joe Hakooz | 4/12/10 5:34 PM

I think many many people have been asking themselves why apple went from an innovative company to a tight ass scrooge.

If anything then locked up overpriced systems are not the future. The hype still works I must say, but for how long?

We still have many idiots who cant afford it buying iPhones(there is an income statistic on this), but maybe the economy being down will help people coming to their senses.

The fact is, apple loves their techno-newb mainstream, not their developers or the creative people out their doing interesting stuff with computers. They still own the best OS out there, but thats more and more the only product i want to be known to own from them.

# Posted By Uncle Unvoid | 4/28/10 9:34 AM

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